Difference between revisions of "The Hour I First Believed"

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* "So superintelligences may spend some time calculating the most likely distribution of superintelligences in foreign universes, figure out how those superintelligences would acausally “negotiate”, and then join a pact such that all superintelligences in the pact agree to replace their own values with a value set based on the average of all the superintelligences in the pact." -- this isn't clear to me. It could be the case that, for instance, two superintelligences do a value handshake with each other, but not with any other superintelligences. Or maybe another way of putting it is: the universal law will have lots of conditional statements like "if your universe has resource of X kind, then take action Y". So the universal law won't literally cause all universes to "look the same" in terms of the actions the AIs are taking.
 
* "So superintelligences may spend some time calculating the most likely distribution of superintelligences in foreign universes, figure out how those superintelligences would acausally “negotiate”, and then join a pact such that all superintelligences in the pact agree to replace their own values with a value set based on the average of all the superintelligences in the pact." -- this isn't clear to me. It could be the case that, for instance, two superintelligences do a value handshake with each other, but not with any other superintelligences. Or maybe another way of putting it is: the universal law will have lots of conditional statements like "if your universe has resource of X kind, then take action Y". So the universal law won't literally cause all universes to "look the same" in terms of the actions the AIs are taking.
 
* "they might also think of this as an example of the counterfactual mugging, and decide to weight their values more in order to do better in the counterfactual case where they are less powerful. This might also simplify the calculation of trying to decide what the values of the pact would be." -- I think this is likely to be much more tricky than what Scott is imagining. Basically, it's not clear which "game" will be considered as the "behind the veil of ignorance" version. See [https://causeprioritization.org/Veil_of_ignorance_and_functional_decision_theory my page on veil of ignorance]. In particular, there are two competing ideas: "Interestingly, Dai uses this reasoning to reach the conclusion that one might care less about astronomical waste, while Karnofsky uses this reasoning to give more weight to long-term worldviews (since they are relatively more neglected)."
 
* "they might also think of this as an example of the counterfactual mugging, and decide to weight their values more in order to do better in the counterfactual case where they are less powerful. This might also simplify the calculation of trying to decide what the values of the pact would be." -- I think this is likely to be much more tricky than what Scott is imagining. Basically, it's not clear which "game" will be considered as the "behind the veil of ignorance" version. See [https://causeprioritization.org/Veil_of_ignorance_and_functional_decision_theory my page on veil of ignorance]. In particular, there are two competing ideas: "Interestingly, Dai uses this reasoning to reach the conclusion that one might care less about astronomical waste, while Karnofsky uses this reasoning to give more weight to long-term worldviews (since they are relatively more neglected)."
* "If they decide to negotiate this way, the pact will be to maximize the total utility of all the entities in the universe willing to join the pact, and all the intelligences involved will reprogram themselves along these lines." -- not really clear what this is even supposed to mean. If we are literally counting every single entity, then e.g. entities that breed more will get a larger share of the multiverse.
+
* "If they decide to negotiate this way, the pact will be to maximize the total utility of all the entities in the universe willing to join the pact" -- not really clear what this is even supposed to mean. If we are literally counting every single entity, then e.g. entities that breed more will get a larger share of the multiverse.
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
  
 
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Revision as of 00:25, 16 March 2020

"The Hour I First Believed" is a blog post by Scott Alexander about acausal trade and a big picture of what will happen in the multiverse.[1] Scott creates plausible deniability by publishing the post on April 1 (April Fool's Day), but on this page I'll assume that everything in the post is serious.

Comments

Here's my thinking on this post:

  • I think the explanations of the five parts ("acausal trade, value handshakes, counterfactual mugging, simulation capture, and the Tegmarkian multiverse") are basically fine/accurate descriptions of those things.
  • I think it's plausible that something sort of like what the post describes will happen, where there will be one dominant "universal law", and many/most superintelligences in the multiverse will follow this law.
  • I think the universal law will mostly look alien to us, and completely unlike what the post describes ("since the superentity is identical to the moral law, it’s not really asking you to do anything except be a good person anyway").

Here are some considerations:

  • maybe it turns out that most civilizations in general, across the multiverse, screw up AI alignment. If so, most superintelligences that exist could have messed up values (values that looked good to program into an AI, but aren't actually the real thing). If so, the universal law will take into account these messed up values, rather than the values which tend to naturally to evolve.
  • Eliezer's idea of reflectively consistent degrees of freedom: if your AI uses CDT, it will not self-modify to use UDT; instead it will evolve to use son-of-CDT. There are other things like this, where different initial configurations lead to totally different endpoints after many iterations of self-modification. So it isn't necessarily the case that all superintelligences will use acausal trade/value handshakes. The universes where the dominant superintelligence doesn't use acausal trade will be "pockets" of isolated worlds that none of the other superintelligences (in other universes) will care about (because that universe cannot be acausally influenced).
  • The post also seems to completely ignore the malignity of the universal prior/getting hacked by distant superintelligences (though simulation capture is similar). I guess the superintelligences won't be using the universal prior.

Comments on specific parts of the post:

  • "In each universe, life arises, forms technological civilizations, and culminates in the creation of a superintelligence which gains complete control over its home universe." -- not necessarily the case. In Christiano-style takeoff, there will be multiple competing AIs, none of which has complete control over the universe.
  • "So superintelligences may spend some time calculating the most likely distribution of superintelligences in foreign universes, figure out how those superintelligences would acausally “negotiate”, and then join a pact such that all superintelligences in the pact agree to replace their own values with a value set based on the average of all the superintelligences in the pact." -- this isn't clear to me. It could be the case that, for instance, two superintelligences do a value handshake with each other, but not with any other superintelligences. Or maybe another way of putting it is: the universal law will have lots of conditional statements like "if your universe has resource of X kind, then take action Y". So the universal law won't literally cause all universes to "look the same" in terms of the actions the AIs are taking.
  • "they might also think of this as an example of the counterfactual mugging, and decide to weight their values more in order to do better in the counterfactual case where they are less powerful. This might also simplify the calculation of trying to decide what the values of the pact would be." -- I think this is likely to be much more tricky than what Scott is imagining. Basically, it's not clear which "game" will be considered as the "behind the veil of ignorance" version. See my page on veil of ignorance. In particular, there are two competing ideas: "Interestingly, Dai uses this reasoning to reach the conclusion that one might care less about astronomical waste, while Karnofsky uses this reasoning to give more weight to long-term worldviews (since they are relatively more neglected)."
  • "If they decide to negotiate this way, the pact will be to maximize the total utility of all the entities in the universe willing to join the pact" -- not really clear what this is even supposed to mean. If we are literally counting every single entity, then e.g. entities that breed more will get a larger share of the multiverse.

References